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    • Oh, I misread the data. Thanks for the clarification. I accidentally mistook the Aus total for a Territory like Victoria and added them together.

      As long as I have you, can you do another fact check? Is this how Australians really feel?

    • I think too specific and a little heavy on the schadenfreude for most.

      I'd say more it's more a 'general you-are-kidding-me incredulity' with a dose of sympathy for the right-minded citizens.

      Also a fair bit of relief that we aren't in your shoes.

    • A cow and a pig are both mammals but not everything that is true for one is true for the other as an example pigs do not chew their cud.

      The fact that other viruses are corona shaped does not mean that they are the same virus.

      Your statement that "covid has been around for twenty years" is like suggesting that cows and pigs are the same. Covid-19 is not the same virus as other corona shaped viruses. Covid-19 has been around for less than two years.

      If what you said was true then why were those politicians whom you admire caught unprepared. You are actually insulting those you support when you suggest that they did not know in 2017 that this virus was already around. You make it sound like they are incompetent and that they lack vigilance.

    • I'm not sure the science is all over the place, but some of the press and politicians are. That article was written by a Rupert Murdoch organization, so might as well read Fox news, which is also owned by Murdoch and known as a primary misinformation vector.

      If you read what the scientists wrote and go to WHO's website, they are arguing that lockdowns should not be the primary control of infection, and when they are used they should be short and sharp. The primary controls they recommend are social distancing, masks, avoiding large crowds, ventilating indoor spaces well, and washing hands.

      The trouble in America is we politicized some primary controls like mask wearing and distancing, so we ended up with horrendous death rates. Reopening schools and sporting events hasn't worked well because of the high numbers of people (not scientist or doctors) who say there is no coronavirus and it's a myth, and masks don't work.

      Remember how the hardest thing in controlling Ebola in Africa was misinformation? Well, Ebola didn't make it here but misinformation did and death followed.

    • Former Australian Prime Minister has called for a 'Royal Commission' (Senate Inquiry) into News Corp.

      One salient paragraph is:

      "With politicians running for cover, the Murdoch royal commission is a long shot. But, if it does get up, James Murdoch, Rupert's youngest son, could give evidence, given he has just explained why he "pulled the ripcord" and quit the family firm over editorial direction of Fox News. "A contest of ideas shouldn't be used to legitimise disinformation," he told The New York Times. At "great news organisations", the mission should be "to introduce fact to disperse doubt — not to sow doubt".

      There's your witness for the prosecution right there."

      - Brisbane Times.

    • Exactly, when sources are quoted that no one trusts what good are they? News has turned propoganda and sources have turned political. So as to my original point in this thread we must rely on our own common sense. When science tells us that the disease is smaller than a hair and wearing a mask is like trying to stop a mosquito with a chainlink fence we believe them. Because it’s commons sense. But we can extrapolate that common sense further. Touching infected surface then touching your mask infects the mask. Yet everyone touches their mask many many times per day. If a mask is contaminated with a deadly pandemic then why are there no disposal protocols? I see masks all over parking lots. Shouldn’t hazmat be there picking them up? Is it a pandemic at all? It certainly doesn’t come close to the seasonal flu stats. You see we can spin ourselves into the ground with all the contradiction and in the end we realize it has all turned political.

      Blue states shutdown, Red states open.

      99.6% survival rate and we are all supposed to live in fear. Lakers win and thousands celebrate in the streets while churches are still shut down.

      None of this makes any more sense than my own common sense.

      Edit:

      Scientists!

    • Only in America where our death rate is way above the rest of the world are masks very controversial, and even in America they aren't controversial among scientists and doctors.

      There are good publications like Nature that show data from scientists who have given decades of their life to this question, and the unequivocal conclusion is masks work:

      When science tells us that the disease is smaller than a hair and wearing a mask is like trying to stop a mosquito with a chainlink fence

      Reference?

    • This is my big beef with the mask. It’s touching the disease and then transferring it. You should only wear a mask once then dispose. The guidance on mask wearing has be horrible.

    • Common sense is NOT a good way to judge the scientific validity of something. Common sense is what gets so many people to be anti-vax, believe in conspiracies and so much other pseudoscientific nonsense.

    • It’s touching the disease and then transferring it.

      Is it better then to have the disease bypass the mask and directly touch the insides of our noses and mouth? If we touch the mask and the disease transfers to our hands, is that not better than having it in our nose and lungs? We can wash our hands.

    • Chris, I am a germaphobe. This has been my life. Someone comes in my home, office with a cough or sneeze when they leave out comes the lysol. I hear a sneeze in grocery aisle I go the other way.
      So I pull my sleeve down to open doors. I open the ice cream door at the store I pull my sleeve down. I am constantly avoiding germs. I do not touch my face. I do not touch my nose or eyes. Without going into more detail just trust me on this. lol

      Masks are germ diapers and to answer your question you cannot touch them without contaminating them. They should never be touched if you touch a germ source. They should be disposed of like hazardous waste because they potentially are. This is why for the everyday person they do not work. Not to mention at all if the disease is airborne it goes right past the mask on exhale.

      Develope a mask that seals against the tiny Covid 19 virus do not touch it and contaminate it then we can rethink the mask thing. Until then they are useless.

    • You’re missing the point and not getting the science right. First off the mask is largely for keeping the mask wearer’s germs from travelling as far as they would without it. In essence protecting others. Yes in a perfect world everyone would not touch their masks, would use an N95 mask and dispose of it every time. The average person touches the mask and face more than they should and hence everyone is encouraged to not just wear a mask but wash their hands or disinfect them regularly. Sounds like you really just don’t want to wear a mask so you’re searching for reasons why you shouldn’t wear one.

    • Please don’t gaslight. A question would be more suited to the conversation.

      The only reason we wear a mask is if we are sick we don’t transfer it to someone else.

      Do you disagree?

      I’ve already shown that the science is mostly political and is all over the place. Now the WHO agrees with my commons sense. As of yesterday so does the CDC. I’ve also shown that the virus is so small it travels right thru a mask. So upgrade the science of masks where they seal and stop the virus. Then address locking down entire societys. Science is already leaning towards that is an aweful idea. The damage caused is much worse especially for the poor.

      Our children are failing school at a 40 to 70% rate. Poor people being hurt the worst.

      Taking care and isolating our ederly is a much more common sense approach.

      Watch this.

    • That's the most effective use, but how do you know if you're not sick? It's possible for a person to be contagious without showing any symptoms for two weeks or longer. The responsible thing to do is to wear a mask when you are around other people. The fact that people can still get sick while wearing a mask doesn't mean wearing one has no effect on the spread of the virus.

    • Chris, I am a germaphobe.

      I understand. 🙂 Most people are terrified of germs. 👹

      Dunno if you saw, but I have a YouTube channel where I interview prominent doctors, yada, and last week I asked Dr. Klaper what is causing this chart:

      You could add Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and Autism to the chart and the trend would be the same, even accelerating after 2000.

      I'm in the process of recording a new episode about this chart and what is driving it. There are a half dozen factors but the big three are germophobia, overuse of antibiotics, and eating refined convenience foods.

      It's ironic that exposure to animals, dirt, and surfaces like shopping carts, is one of the best ways to develop strong immunity so if we do catch something awful like Covid, it doesn't bring us down.

      Great book:

    • I‘m getting triggered! Lol

      Story: One time I was at a Seahawks game at the Kingdome. The Kingdome had these long metal troughs that everyone would line up and pee into, side by side. Literally 50 people peeing at once. When a spot opened you just filled in the hole. Directly outside the door was a set of stairs leading downward. A distinct pee trail led to these set of stairs. Out I come following the pee trail and here is a young child playing on the stairs her mother standing close by.

      AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGG! But you know what? I agree with you 100% eat dirt! Our kids feasted on it. Sucked on dogs ears shared (stole) bottles from sick kids and on and on.

      Always in amazement of how tough our God given bodies are.

      Wash your hands! Lol

    • It's not really my proposal, though, is it?

      On when to stop wearing masks: 52% suggested more than a year.

      “It’s hard to know when it will be the right time to stop face-covering, but given it is such a small inconvenience for notable gains, I find it hard to believe that anyone is in a hurry to end this practice.”

      Amy Padula, University of California-San Francisco

      Would wait more than a year

      “When the coronavirus pandemic is over, and there aren't any other virulent respiratory pathogens circulating, I will consider not wearing a mask in some situations. I will probably always wear a mask on a plane from now on.”

      Jean Brender, Texas A&M University

      Would wait more than a year

    • I've been following this conversation with interest. Specifically because it's so civil and rational. There are valid arguments on the side of both those who downplay the virus as well as those overreacting to it. I'll say that, regardless whether they "work" or not, meaning saving some infinitesimal risks, I have no issue covering my face with a mask in the current social circumstances deemed necessary to. I simply do it out of respect for the others. I do see overbearing enforcement of it, as well as restriction of free move as abuse of authority, and agree that needs to be in check and not supported but they play with fear which is how they control the masses. Ever heard of the use of "Please don't panic!" standard fear monger in any crowd?

      Oh, but what to do when we see someone expressly ignoring the new commonly accepted "standards". What to think of those people? I mean, if I was ever sick with a flu or cold, since I was a child, I have been educated by my parents and society I grew up in, to put my hand or elbow, and a handkerchief when I know it's happening often, to block an irruption of saliva or what have you, when sneezing or coughing. It's only here in the land of the free I have discovered some take pleasure in arrogantly spraying you with their saliva when sneezing or coughing and not even blink at the thought how gross that is as social behavior. Forget the health risks issue, it's common etiquette used in reverse to demonstrate they can spit in one's face, arrogantly.

      Do you think you can convince Americans to lower their voices in a French restaurant, in France?

    • I’m definitely not gaslighting like trump would. And no I don’t agree with you about wearing the mask when we are sick. This coronavirus is different in that many people are asymptomatic and presymptomatic and therefore we wear the mask just in case. I’ll wait for you to look up those words and catch up in the conversation and science. You’re also still using the virus size and mask hole argument. I guess you failed to read the science behind why that’s misleading to say the least.

    • I heard a polititian say yesterday that this whole thing wasn’t based on science but a fear based response. He went on to say something like it wasn’t being done with a scapel but with a hatchet. So science went completely out the window! They apparently are operating on their best commons sense approach? Which they admit is based on fear.

      I just can’t run my life based on fear. As an example I have a few hundred thousand miles of motorcycle under my belt. I admit when I think about the risk I feel fear. Has that stopped me from climbing on the bike? Nope. I calculate the risk wear the appropriate gear and constantly check myself for safety.

      I’m not going to live my life in fear.

      Is that the same loud people answering their cell phones in the movie theatre? Lol

    • Hey Dan, here's someone with lots of cred who supports what I think is close to your view on masks:

      I've been following him for awhile because he is both an economist and an MD, and he studies populations of poor people.

      He is fiercely controversial for his anti-lockdown views, but I think a debate with solid facts and science behind it is a good thing to have.

      What I didn't like about the Jordan Schaechtel reference is he's a journalist who has no science and writes for partisan outlets like Breitbart and The Blaze. (And he speaks in absolute terms, which scientists rarely do because there is almost always uncertainty).