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    • I think part of the difference in driving, between my F150 FX4 and my 4Runner is the difference in throttle ramping between Ford and Toyota, the difference between the 5 speed and the 10- speed transmission.

      Toyota's throttle ramp on the 4 Runner is very shallow and takes a deep press of your toe to really get into the engines torque curve which is above ~3000-3500 rpm as is the throttle ramp on the FJCruiser and I have a suspiscion that this is a deliberate engineering choice by Toyota- makes for very effective speed control in 4WD LO ( which is important in preventing breakage of driveline parts on rough terrain ) - whereas, my Ford F150 ( and a previously owned Toyota Tundra small block V8 pickup ) has a much faster throttle ramp which means one leaves the stop light very quickly if one desires - this is nice on the road and in traffic, but maybe not quite as nice in 4WD LO - I don't have much experience with 4 WD LO in my F150 yet - haven't needed it locally - as I said, my vehicles are to take me somewhere into the back country to do something out of the vehicle.

      I do truly admire the hard core off road racers like DanSolar above. I love the European off WRX racers and the ice racers, but my goal in the back country is to get in and out safely, comfortably and securely without breaking anything if I can help it. So far, I've had pretty fair luck with my plan.

      I really thought I would need the V8 powerplant due to a 5000 pound trailer I tow from time to time - too big to easily tow with a 4Runner or a Tacoma, but driving the Ecoboost and Ford's tow rating for it of 11,000+ pounds convinced me other wise.

      Here is a nice cheesy video of the 2018 Ecoboost dragging the V8 F150 - the Ecoboost gives up 25 HP to the V8, but has 70 foot pounds more torque and it shows - they have added more ads to this video since I first saw it - sorry for that

      Ultimately you have to decide if a full size truck will fit in and through the terrain you are travelling in. There were lots of places at the FJ Summit that I would definitely not have been comfortable trying to go with a full sized truck, and a few places a full sized truck would probably not made it through, at least not in my hands.

      But I do prefer the space, the carrying capacity, and the comfort of a full size truck on long interstate trips getting to some interesting back country. SO you have to pick your poison, I think.

      In the evenings recently, I have been streaming The Gymkhana Files - a quasi history of Ken Block's series of drfiting, off road racing videos - very entertaining but makes me wonder how many times you can get away thumbing your nose at the old soul catcher.

      Ken Block made a comment I found rather interesting and unexpected - he said he had way more traction on ice with studded tires, than he had on gravel courses with off road tires. Drifting on ice is fun, that's for sure.

    • Yeah, if dealer incentives are really good, I could see how the RAM 1500 is a good buy. You've inspired me to give them a test drive. I can honestly say I haven't been in a RAM 1500, and I should stop talking and get in one before I compare them more. The F150 gets super expensive if I want dual climate control and leather seats. I've pretty much ruled that out, but it looks like you can get a better interior for cheaper in the RAM.

      I too didn't believe that the cabs in the Superduty's and the 150's are identical. Interestingly they are as of 2017, the F250-F550 got the same all-aluminum cab that was introduced in the F150 a few years before. It's literally the identical cab.

      The specs from Ford show that every dimension is identical to the 10th of an inch. It sounded too good to be true, that the half-ton F150 gets the same huge, comfy cab as the 1-tons. But yes, it's legit. Parking must be a pain...

    • Dual Climate control and leather seats and heated seats, etc. - I looked at dual climate control, leather seats, heated seats in Laramies and Platinums, but found what I wanted in an XLT - no climate control but the vehicles I've had before with climate control I had to monitor manually anyway ( BMW 3s, Suburban, etc ) and I specifically DID NOT want moon roofs or such - but I did find nice heated seats in the woven nylon XLT interior - and I like'em.

      I did read that the bodies on the F150 and the SuperDuty F250s and 350s were all the same but I never actually checked the specs to verify it.

      I am kind of wishing I could find LED or HID light offerings from Ford. The existing bulbs are adequate, but don't match the HIDs I have had in other vehicles. I noticed this in my F350 Tiger too.

      The F150 is not an urban cruiser for me - its fine in Indianapolis, or St Louis, but I think probably not optimal for San Francisco. It does need full size parking spots.

      The start stop technology, means remote starting is just a few bits of software away, so my truck came with remote start - I wouldn't have ordered it, but it is nice on cold winter mornings, I wouldn't have ordered the larger 36 gallon fuel tank either, but I find I really do like it - It lets me choose where I refuel on trips via Gas Buddy - I can drive to Denver from my home in western Indiana with only one gas stop if I want to. The range is almost twice that of my 4Runner.

    • Yeah, it's actually quite fun to data collect like this. For me, it makes the purchase more exciting because I know what I'm buying is exactly what I need.

      Speaking of data, I need to share this!

      I graphed the depreciation of a bunch of vehicles, both the total purchase price and the price per mile because I wanted to understand their depreciation curves. Since depreciation is an inescapable figure that often plays the most significant role in the true cost of ownership, I figure it was important to understand it. I primarily focused on depreciation per mile because I think cost per mile is the most important financial figure for comparing vehicles.

      What I found was fascinating, specifically with the Tacoma. If you buy a new Tacoma and sell it at 125k miles, it loses 25% less value per mile than if you buy a used one at 40k miles and sell it at the same number of miles, 125k. A new Tacoma is cheaper per mile to drive than a slightly or significantly used one. That makes no sense.

      As compared to the F150, it has a healthy depreciation curve. It loses value to where it makes a used purchase make sense for someone like me who doesn't have the cash to buy new, but still holds value way better than a sedan and most SUVs.

    • Yeah, the F150 would be a no go for me if I lived in the city. I'm in the San Jose suburbs and rarely venture into the city. Fortunately, I have a quite wide driveway too. If I end up getting the F150, I can guarantee you I'll be taking public transit up to SF.

      Did you get Sync 3 in your F150? I found Car Play in my brothers Supercrew to be my favorite feature on road trips.

      I'm looking forward to 6 seats if I can swing it with the F150. I have a large extended family, and somehow we end up with people riding in the cargo area of our crossovers. I envy @Chris's minivan for that reason.

      36-gallon tank sounds like exactly what I need. I spent a few days between Christmas and new years on camping dirt roads without touching pavement in Death Valley. I came dangerously close to running out of fuel with my 400-mile range on my Subaru Outback. We had to cut the trip short to go back to the Gas Station. Going from a 21 Avg MPG to a 17 Avg MPG that people are reporting on Fuelly with the Supercrew 4x4 3.5L Ecoboost would be tough ๐Ÿ˜ขWishing Ford's electric and hybrids would get here sooner, but in all reality they'll probably start out a $50-60k in the Lariats and Platinums. Double my budget, so waiting won't make a difference.

      Allie loving the dusty dirt roads on our last trip ๐Ÿ‘‡

    • No I dont have Sync 3 - my truck is an XLT, not a Lariat or Platinum - I specifically DID NOT want a moon roof and all the Platinums and Lariats on the lot seemed to have Moon Roofs or some sort of roof opening and I wanted a metal solid roof - cheaper, stronger, and quieter, or at least that's what I thought. Mostly cheaper and less likely to have breakage issues.

      I have had very little success with voice commands in a moving vehicle - so I didn't get that upgrade either. My iPhone connects seemlessly with Bluetooth very quickly, but also with a charging USB cable from the truck to a nice dash mount hooked on the an air conditioning vent. I should get a picture of it - I bought the mount - A Grip All in One Mount from Verizon and it works ok - keeps the phone face visible but below the upper surface of the dashboard, and easy to reach for touch commands on the phone surface. I think Siri will work but I confess I do not use Siri mostly because I refuse to use Siri, or Alexa. Call me an old curmudgeon.

      I do rather like the the OEM GPS in the truck, despite its location in the dash which. is remarkable because I routinely dislike OEM GPS units, and I routinely use my Garmin 3597, which I greatly prefer to any OEM GPS I have ever used - I strongly prefer the screen position of sitting up on top of the dash, rather than down in the dash requiring one to look away from the road with OEM GPS units. ( I have used Garmin GPS units on motorcycles and cars since its introduction in the 1990s so I feel very comfortable with them and the 3597 is one of the best they ever made IMHO. It does respond to voice commands, but again I refuse to do that )

      The truck does pretty well with fuel I think - I drove to Denver and back in a nasty winter storm for the lunar eclipse, and averaged 17.66 mpgs in 20ยบF weather with snow flying while driving ~2200 miles at 75+ mph in some fairly significant winds. Road surfaces were secure except for a brief part of the trip along the Colorado Kansas border when I had to drive much slower 50-55mph.

      The fuel milage is much better at 60-65mph. The fuel economy is affected by wind; the truck has a significant sail effect. Fuel in Denver was $1.79 at Costco. My fuel bill for the whole trip was $251.53 which is much less than a few years ago in a Tundra. Gas is cheaper now, but the milage was a bit better than the Tundra too.

      At 55 -60mph I think one will average close to 20 mph depending on terrain, wind, and the weight of one's foot. I think the fuel economy is very close to my 2015 4Runner or better, and I usually - but not always - do running fuel mph talleys when travelling.

      How do you get 6 seats? 2 in the front row, and a bench in the rear is what I have. I do like the very large console between the two front seats - gives me a place to stash a few tools, compass, binoculars, maps, and a free small treats with caffeine.

    • Most of my adventures are on 2 wheels.

      In New Zealand we don't get huge amounts of your jumbo US wagons. Our vehicle market is predominantly Japanese due to them driving on the same side of the road as us. Most of those that own US trucks here do so because they are into the hot road aspect of having a V8.

      My last off road vehicle was a 2 door Suzuki Vitara with 2 inch lift running 31's.

    • Talking 20 mpg for a 4x4 full-size truck is unheard of!

      You can get the front center console in two configurations, either the center console like yours or a folding center seat with cup holders and a tray on the back of the seat. So, I'd get the folding version. I've ridden in this seat before, and it's surprisingly not bad because the truck is so wide. At the very least, it should be useful for the dog when driving 5 people. I'm not a fan of the dog riding in the bed. Just too dangerous for a pet I love.

      I've never liked the OEM GPS's because the ones I've used don't do well with forecasting and routing around traffic. But I realize that's really only a big problem in gridlocked metros, like the SF Bay Area where I live. That's why I like CarPlay so much. I can use the traffic apps I love, Google Maps and Waze, on the fixed screen.

      Now that I think about it, I've used the OEM GPS in the Superduty in Utah because Google Maps and Waze were getting me lost. Ford's mapping worked quite well on the backroads of Moab and Indian Creek country. Google, Apple Maps and Waze work so well near me, but they fail me when I get to other areas of the country. It's probably because I'm so close to their HQ's.

      You can get Sync 3 in the XL and XLT, either through an equipment package or the STX package. I love car play so much in my friends' cars, but I've been living all my life without it. So do I really need it? I don't know.

    • Nice! Love those 31's!

      Our American trucks are quite large. And our fuel prices are absurdly cheap compared to most of the world. I really wish that wasn't the case. If we had expensive fuel, we'd probably already have electric and hybrid trucks. I wish I could op for an EV truck, but that's impossible. And it might be a decade until they're affordable. Until then, Ford will be happy to sell Americans millions of gasoline trucks every year, even when they have hybrids/EV options.

    • I think the Rivan will be taking orders this year or next year won't they? For delivery in late 2020

      400 miles range is pretty impressive, and useful for local trips. I assume towing will lower it substantially.

      It really does look very interesting and checks many of the needed boxes in a utilitarian luxury truck. If it is priced near the posted $69 K it will find a ready market I believe. Expensive, but several K less than a well equipped Raptor.

    • Yeah, I think it'll be a big deal! Apparently, Amazon and its 700 million round it led, agree there's a market.

      The 400 mile version is a 180 kWH pack, and my guess is that will only come in the nicest trim and be over $100k. The 230 mile 105 kWH pack should be around 69k (after tax credit). If the cost per kWH for battery upgrade is the same on the model 3 ($280), then the extra 75 kWH would add 21k.

      If I could wait and splurge on an EV, I'd wait for the Tesla pickup. Since I do a lot of road trips, the supercharger network is almost a requirement for me.

    • I wondered about a charger network.

      Maybe Rivians will be allowed to use the SuperCharger for a fee? Win/Win??!!

      The Rivian will look better than those diesels taking up slots too!! ๐Ÿ˜œ

      I am really amazed at the cost of vehicles these days. I keep reading that there is no inflation too... Hmmm...

    • It's hard to imagine that Tesla will be willing to give rivals access to the supercharger network, even for a fee, when they risked bankruptcy over and over again getting a car lineup off the ground with superchargers to defend their value proposition. Tesla supercharges are its unstated weapon that will soon shine. Proprietary supercharges are the key Tesla emerging as the monopoly when EV's become mainstream. Tesla is years ahead of its competition when it comes to charging infrastructure. This could be EV startups' biggest threat. Sure, Rivian can build an amazing EV truck, but is it going to be capable of sprinkling thousands of chargers across the country to convince people to buy the truck?


      The cost of new internal combustion engine vehicles is skyrocketing much faster than the CPI. I was reading that this is largely due to safety requirements.

      Pre-collision avoidance, side air-bags, backup cameras, TMPS, etc. etc. are coming stock on a lot of vehicles now, at the cost of the consumer. I was noticing the new Tacomas are coming with pre-collision avoidance, even on the lowest trim.

    • Dang you and this thread. Not to your spec, and I am not really a domestic fan, but, the new 2019 Ford Ranger would fit my lifestyle nicely. Amazingly, 10+ year and older 4x4's are still selling for 10K+. The new ones would be $40K for the basic off road machine but I like the svelte look.

    • I have been reading about the return of the Ford Ranger to the US - particularly in the Raptor dress mode - but I have not seen one in the wild yet - but I think for those of us who don't want or need a full sized truck they may be very desireable. They certainly look cool, and apparently they can be purchased with serious off road goodies outside the US market.

    • The Ranger was one of the first vehicles I looked at, but for me, it was pretty quickly disqualified due to limited legroom in the second row on the Supercrew and the lack of 5 seats. It has four bucket seats, which is actually really cool. For those that don't need a full-size cab, it's a good buy. It is an amazing truck, with leading specs for the compact truck world. Good torque and horsepower to weight ratio. 7,500 lb tow capacity is a lot for such a small truck. And parking is a breeze.

      It beats the Tacoma and Tundra out of the water when it comes to capacities. The max payload in the Ranger is 1860 lbs, and the max tow capacity is 7,500 lbs. Compare to the Tacoma, 1200lbs (payload), 6400lbs (tow), and the Tundra 1660 lbs (payload), 6800-10,000 lbs (tow). The Ranger out performs Toyota's trucks, except for towing on the Tundra with a V8.

      It's a little cheesy, but I got a real kick out of Ford's ad:

    • Kevin, your link about Ranger towing was funny, but you're gonna love this one. Ken Block says don't hoonigan on the highway for good reason, but this just looks like LOTS of fun. Very dangerous fun, but fun just the same.

    • Oh this is epic. Ford has their marketing DOWN. I'm glad I watched it all the way through until 1:47 when they exploded the mountain side. I wonder how they did this safely. I highly doubt there was a driver in there during the explosion. Must have been RC or possibly a composite done in post.

    • I think we can safely say they have gone Hoonigan! Yes, that was an unexpected ending for me too!

      I wonder where that was shot and who the intended audience was - or where this is being marketed - this link makes me think Europe somewhere maybe? Spain?

      Ford may get called out for not promoting responsible driving behaviour, and as an old boring adullt I actually concur, but still, it is a compelling fun video just the same. But just for old boring responsible adults, not young impressionable adolescents..... ๐Ÿฅบ

      To wit:

      My wife and I were returning home a few nights ago on a divided 4 lane state highway about 45 minutes after sunset - it was dark and we were mud strewn from chasing raptors with our cameras in the local backcountry - when two vehicles approached us from behind, closing very rapidly. The speed limit was 55 and I was cruising about 62 -64 in my 4Runner along with all the traffic in front of me... Not weaving nor offending anyone.

      The first truck passed me slowly on my left side, hence I could not move to my left. I was stuck in the right outside lane - and I could see the other truck still closing rapidly behind me, much higher speed than I was driving, and i watched to see the truck drift off the highway lane, through the foot wide rumble strip, onto the paved narrow shoulder, and blow by my vehicle on the right side. In many many years of driving, I have never had someone pass me without slowing down on the shoulder of a main road at a speed that must have been 35-45 miles greater than the speed limit..... - I am glad that went well for everyone, but it is still pretty exciting when I think about it.

      We did have a teenager die near our neighborhood recently - 5 adolescents in the car on a dry paved road, not 100 yards from a 4 way stop sign controlled intersection with a 30 mph speed limit - the 18 y/o driver lost control of the vehicle and veared off and then across the road into a ditch. Single vehicle accident. The driver was without significant injury. However, one of the passengers was not so fortunate. Extremely sad, and that is why, while I love this ad, at the same time, I am a bit disturbed by it.

      Driving really is a very serious business, especially when you have passengers in your vehicle.

      I do love watching explosions though done by professionals. Hoonigan!