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    • If they don’t (bigger things) then we’re the highest order of all we observe and measure- I just think there is more-can’t prove it and I might be wrong.

      Might be wishful thinking too on my part. Yet: we inhabit such a large space that’s continually expanding one would think there is more. This is a thought shared by many in the scientific community- We ourselves are ‘Alien’ in that we travel off planet and visit other worlds- and this we did in a very short period of time after we gained the mechanical ability of flight-

    • I’m comfortable measuring what an entity/being “does” with their level of development.

      Humans create ‘things’ that had no prior existence- from ethereal to material, with imagination as the engine that starts the process (one could argue).

      This does not imply superiority to other beings, just a level of development Humans seem to have that is distinct with no other of our kind in parallel or even remotely close.

      There is much we don’t know and can speculate about, which is how we grow.

      We have advanced substantially based on using observation and measurement and drawing conclusions when the results are processed using scientific methodologies-

      We are creator beings partly based on anatomy, largely based on our level of consciousness and what we “do” with it.

      We also commit heinous acts, and can destroy ourselves and other living things, now en mass.

      There is an odd and sad paradox here-keys and tells seem to be hiding in our consciousness/non physical part of our being-

      Perhaps there is a Wisdom locked in other beings we can’t observe or measure- ideally we respect all things and harm as few as possible. Much responsibility lies in our hands. Which is another unique quality of being Human.

    • More enduring than eternal. Ouch my brain hurt on that one it's so far from comprehensible what that would actually mean. I would agree with you that these ideas though interesting are unfalsifiable and therefore mere speculation and beyond science. That could of course change one day.

    • Very well said. I would add that humans now have the capability to be Gods. We can and do create living organisms from computer code. I don't see why we couldn't one day create a conscious being much like ourselves. We have the technology to pretty much do it now.

    • I don't see why we couldn't one day create a conscious being much like ourselves. We have the technology to pretty much do it now.

      Yes. It only takes nine months and requires no special training or equipment.*

      *OK, it's an old joke (from Dawkins originally?) but I couldn't resist. 😉

    • I’m for sure speculating- do appreciate the indulgence and feedback. The beauty of these threads is it allows for a place to do this.

    • It seems these “things” are self arising. Be it God(s) other life (Alien) or the life we see on this rock.

      I like the term potentiality- at the quantum level seems like empty space can give rise to matter and from that we find life, and in Humans we see a distinct creator being. And we mimic this something from nothing process based on impressioning the subconscious (act of an observer). There is an ethereal component, and it’s manifested through material reality- (my speculation based on the odd thoughts in my head)—

      Happy Saturday!

    • yeah, if time is a dimension within the universe, then it only has meaning within the universe. If there is some other kind of time outside the universe, we know nothing of it. So if we think of the universe as a four-dimensional thing - a vast array of 4-D points - what else can we say of the "duration" of those points than eternal? Outside of the universe, what would time even mean? We don't have concepts for that - eternal or instantaneous - take your pick!

    • I agree with you proposition of understanding each person is at a different location of their development (psychological, spiritual, consciousness, etc). What if a person's actions, words, and orientations is a complex expression of their own unique process?

      I believe the ultimate heart of the life experience is the “ultimate union of humanity and divinity in the body” (Ferrer, 2006).

      To embody something is be a tangible expression of a thought, a belief, a quality, a or feeling. It’s to transmute the abstract, intangible quality in living and breathing flesh right in front of you that you can touch, feel, relate to. The phsyical is an expression of the subtle (somestimes nonconscious) parts of ourselves.

      “That person is the embodiment of kindness.”
      Everything about that person – what they say, how they say it, what they do, how they do it – is an expression of kindness. It’s not merely just saying kind words or doing a kind act, that actual core essence of being is kindness. 

      Perhaps a way and place to explore the paradox and wisom is within the nonverbal, nonlinear language of the body. AND, perhaps what which we experience (sensations, images, feels, subtle nonverbal) are pure experiences that we have. When we attempt to translate this into meaning making and disconnect from the phenomenological pure exploration of consciousness. The meaning making reduces our abilites to remain open to the mulidimensionality of our experience.

      The body is the meeting place where the spirit (or immaterial) and physical world integrate, and how the spirit transmutes into physical form.

    • That’s real good - the two are intertwined and mirrored manifestations of the other-

      You have a mystical sense of ‘things’ —The quote below from Neville Goddard might speak to you-

      Excerpt From: “Your Faith is Your Fortune."

      “In the beginning was the unconditioned awareness of being; and the unconditioned awareness of being became conditioned by imagining itself to be something, and the unconditioned awareness of being became that which it had imagined itself to be; so did creation begin.

      By this law — first conceiving, then becoming that conceived — all things evolve out of No-thing; and without this sequence there is not anything made that is made.

      Before Abraham or the world was — I AM. When all of time shall cease to be — I AM. I AM the formless awareness of being conceiving myself to be man. By my everlasting law of being I am compelled to be and to express all that I believe myself to be.

      I AM the eternal No-thingness containing within my formless self the capacity to be all things. I AM that in which all my conceptions of myself live and move and have their being, and apart from which they are not.

      I dwell within every conception of myself; from this withinness I ever seek to transcend all conceptions of myself. By the very law of my being I transcend my conceptions of myself, only as I believe myself to be that which does transcend.

      I AM the law of being and beside ME there is no law. I AM that I AM.”

    • Yes, the two are intertwined, parts of the whole, in process of becoming.

      And Yes! thank you for sharing this.

      You are correct and insightful to understand my mystical orientation and positionality. The laws of culturally conditioned contructed informs how our forms (personalities, phsycial form, and functionality) take shape.

      "I dwell within every conception of myself; from this withinness I ever seek to transcend all conceptions of myself. By the very law of my being I transcend my conceptions of myself, only as I believe myself to be that which does transcend." As we mature and continue to consciously develop in our later years, we return to the art of unbecoming all that we have allowed to imprint and filter our narratives.

      This is an interesting reminder that I have been reflecting upon this past week, and the daily reminder to use the various systems and institutions (academics, technology, religion) as tools but not allow ourselves to become enmeshed in the stems themselves. Returning to the quesiton of the "immaterial part of our being," we invite ourselves back to unlearning and letting go of the attachments to presuppositions in order to even connect to that possibilities that we can recognize and access the immaterial essence that we are. Remember all the dimensions of the self rooted in the nonduality of raw unconditioned potential .... that's the juice and the place where anything and nothing can be birthed.

    • Glad you liked that- Mystics are outside our lines and willing to be wrong-

      The law of being is impressioning our subconscious mind and from that material reality proceeds- we mimic our Origins and have similar creative abilities.

      I really like Neville Goddard’s way of looking at things- poetic, intuitive and intersting insights.

      You mentioned unconditioned potential, one could argue that exists because in a layer above is unconditional love.

      Human forms of Love are conditional- yet we sense something greater and have long strived to towards things seemingly beyond us.

      Are we making things up? In reality we are making every ‘thing’ up-

      I do ‘believe’ we are more than our material selves. More than we know-

    • As much as I'd love it to be true, I don't think so. I have been thinking for the past few days on and off about this topic. My belief is based on observation, and logic, both of which can be flawed. I think we are biological machines, like a computer with memory and cpu (brain) and peripherals (our body and senses). What we call consciousness cannot evade its own self, we can't see ourselves from the outside, or can we? If that were the case, then yes, enough advanced technology could replicate our "soul" and we could live forever minus the perishable body.

      What I think we are totally missing, is the extreme and very little understood or utilized power of our own subconscious. That is where I think we should focus to grow, and where a true revolution will happen for the human kind.

    • Good points made, there are solid ways of looking at this from varying perspectives- I agree with you on the subconscious mind - how we impression ‘it’ (personally and collectively) determines/influences our lives.