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    • LOL! 😂

      I don't necessarily think one has to believe in the Tower of Babel story to see the connection here. As a Christian, I'm open to the possibility of the Tower of Babel not being an historically accurate story. Instead being a story written to portray a moral point.

      The moral points that we are supposed to take away from the Tower of Babel I think are moral points that we can take away from the Titanic as well. Namely, that we should always be prepared for failure to happen and never think we are above reproach or improvements.

      The ironic thing is after the Titanic sank, a bunch of safety regulations came out that made ocean travel much safer going forward. So, some good did come out of it.

      But yes, you are corect that I am especially interested in those who are religious and have background in Biblican study. Maybe @Shewmaker can weigh in on this one?

    • Although I believe in God's intervenient providence, I believe that it is a mistake to do more than what Mordechai did with Esther.

      Mordechai said "who knows whether you are not come to the kingdom for such a time as this?"

      Abraham Lincoln wrote a comment on this subject in 1862 which I think is admirable:

      The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party -- and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say that this is probably true -- that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere great power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And, having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds.

      That mankind is arrogant, that I can affirm without hesitation.

      That much of which agnosticism and atheism believes is certain is actually suspect, I am confident is true.

      That God rules and intervenes in the affairs of men is a fundamental belief in my mind,

      The idea that the chaotic effects of a supposed explosion resulted in order and life is one of the most ridiculous, ludicrous, and incredible assertions of those who deny the existence of a Creator. The claims of the builders and owners of the Titanic pale in comparison to the audacity of those who fervently BELIEVE with ardent zeal in their god, the Big Bang.

    • The idea that the chaotic effects of a supposed explosion resulted in order and life is one of the most ridiculous, ludicrous, and incredible assertions of those who deny the existence of a Creator. The claims of the builders and owners of the Titanic pale in comparison to the audacity of those who fervently BELIEVE with ardent zeal in their god, the Big Bang.

      🤣

      Of course, your belief wouldn't be called "faith" if it had any basis in fact.

    • LOL.

      Big Bang is a theory - a supposition based on rational thought. If a better explanation can be proven it will be gladly succeeded. Hardly the basis for a Religion.

      Faith is ... Edit: ahhh never mind - it won't make any difference what we say anyway.

      Next!

    • You're right, it won't make any difference. Religions are a social construct, tribes in which the members comfort and support one another and protect each other from other tribes. You see the same characteristics in the far left and far right political extremists.

      The question is when will humanity stop feeling compelled to divide each other up into tribes.

    • I was watching a video on Buddhism this week and one thing they stress is not letting religion divide us. See the good in other faiths and find commonality amongst each other. That’s an approach we can all learn from, I think.

    • What does not require faith is not being fooled into believing anyone knows the origins of our existence. The best anyone can do is put forward testable theories that fit the currently available facts and discard the theories that don't. And then keep testing and learning.

      Or, you can just have faith that you're right regardless of any facts or lack thereof.

    • No those who do not hearken to God do not have faith because Faith originates with the assurances of the Testifier. Those assurances are the substance upon which Faith stands and without those assurances all that one has is unsubstantiated speculation no matter how strongly convinced is the person who believes the unsubstantiated.

      The things which God assures us are true are called ὑπόστασις (hypostasis)

      Those assurances produce ἔλεγχος (elegchos)

      ἔστιν δὲ πίστις ἐλπιζομένων ὑπόστασις πραγμάτων ἔλεγχος οὐ βλεπομένων

      Another way of saying the same thing is when Paul said "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

      If God did not say it first, then a conviction is not faith.

      Still another example is when Jude wrote that Faith was delivered. God's word is the origin of faith.

      ἅπαξ παραδοθείσῃ τοῖς ἁγίοις πίστει

      Agnostics and Atheists believe in things for which they have no true evidence but their belief is not faith because it is not predicated on the trustworthiness of the One who testifies.

      ἐκ πίστεως εἰς πίστιν

    • You just said the same thing I did, that your "belief" has no basis in fact.

      And that's fine if it brings you comfort, unless of course, when faith and gullibility is used to grift money from others.