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    • Curious to get some reactions and takeaways from the first Trump/Biden debate. I thought Trump came off as a bully, who debased the debate into a shouting match. Biden I felt at times was not strong enough and should have fought back more, though he did have his moments where he fired shots back. He also had moments where he talked directly to the American people and tried to speak directly to them. An attempt to contrast himself from the orange buffoon on the other podium. Chris Wallace had a tough job to do and I think all things considered did a good job trying to reign Trump in as best he can. He cut him off when he could and made it clear that Trump was to blame for the debate being such a hot mess. 

       Couple other things to take note of: Democrats saw a huge windfall in donations during the debate, which is a good sign for Biden. 

       Also, the Commission on Presidential Debates (a bipartisan organization) is seeking to add more rules and guard rails to prevent future debates from coming off the rails like they did. 

    • I agree with your statements.

      I think the moderator needs the ability to cut the mike for the individual not speaking during the 2-minute answer to the question. Obviously that cut-off is only needed for one of the individuals. If the debates are to go forward major changes need to be made.

      I was appalled.

    • Not only the mike - the two debaters should be videoed with seperate cameras ( as well as microphones ) so when one individual has the microphone, the video of the other party can be turned off, or minimized to an icon size, or something - so we don't have to see the eye rolling, head weaving, etc, of the counter party.

      And of course the mike is turned off for all except the current speaker.

      I wonder if this is not what the Debate Commission has in mind.

      But there is the possibility neither party may be willing to agree to these limitations, either. Well, one party is not likely to.

    • That’s a little like saying a judge in a court of law must stay silent if a lawyer or witness gets out of line, no? Except much worse because the president in a broadcast to millions has the power to spread life-threatening misinformation.

    • My comment was a little tounge in cheek. Wallace was a disgrace. Trump knew it would be two against one. 325 thousand votes is no small sampling. It is no wonder they want to censor what should be a fair contest.

      Antifa is not an organization?

      It is no wonder his advisors are telling him to avoid further debate.

    • KOMO is in Seattle, right?? Is that poll for real?? In Seattle??

      But then ..... Maybe, just maybe, there are still more than a few citizens less than totally pleased with seeing their city's burning from "peaceful protests" all summer long.

      Maybe there are some still citizens who go to work every day, who try to treat their fellow man ( or woman ) fairly, and aren't in the streets with signs, who are a bit disenchanted with what they see in Seattle, Kenosha, Louisville, Washington DC, and other metropolitan areas. I have quietly suspected this for some time.

      Many of those citizens may even agree with much of the criticism of select specific police enforcement activities, but nevertheless have no desire whatsoever to lose police protection in their cities and neighborhoods...... They may not be in the streets, they may not be waving signs, but I suspect they may have opinions about how they want their localities to be governed, policed, safe, and not on fire.

      Otherwise I find your posted poll hard to understand.

    • Is that poll for real?? In Seattle??

      It was a Twitter poll. KOMO is part of Sinclair broadcasting, but it's legit in the same way Fox is, they do report real news. Wearethenews dot ws (I don't want to link to a misinformation site) called on its readers to vote on the poll, and then they manufactured the first two graphics Dan posted.

      Misinformation is invading every part of American life.

      Legitimately, there are Trump supporters who loved the president's performance, that part is factual.

    • Thank you. @Chris

      That helps. My first question was “is that poll for real”?

      So probably not, as I suspected.

      But I am still beginning to get the feeling that this election will be far closer than the media are suggesting- just like I felt back in October 2016 in southern Ohio.

      I may well be wrong, but I am again getting significant cognitive dissonance between what I am seeing on the media about who‘s ahead, and what I see as I drive around locally.

      And I live in a liberal college town.

      It brings to mind an ancient curse. “May you live in interesting times!”

    • I am betting it will be close too. I don't remember another political candidate where a core demographic just LOVES him as much as Trump supporters love their candidate, so that their poll numbers remained stable no matter what. Reagan and Obama had devoted voters, but their poll numbers did serious swings.

      Everyone could list 20 things Trump has done that would end the career of any other politician, but not Trump. Biden doesn't possess that passion among his core, I don't think.

      When Obama won in 2008, the polls and the media reported that racism was pretty much over in America, and I believed that. But Google had open-sourced anonymized searches, so some data scientists realized that there was a big disconnect between what people were telling pollsters and their friends & wives, compared to how they really felt. The most revealing was the huge rise in "n***er president" Google searches, indicating a significant part of the population still had reservations about a black family in the white house.

      I have family in PA, where Biden leads Trump by 23% among women, according to polls. White men there overwhelmingly support Trump, so the race appears fairly close. The issue appears to be that the men won't publicly say they support Trump due to fear of backlash from wives or whomever, because the election is so polarized, but in the privacy of the polling station...

    • As I said, I am suffering from cognitive dissonanace - between what I see in print and online, and what I see as I drive around. Now, I know that what I see statistically is truly insignificant; I judt can't help but notice I saw this same kind of thing in the fall of 2016.

      My wife and I went over to Ohio to see the Serpent Mounds which we had not seen before

      As we were heading back to Indiana in mid October of 2016, along US Hwy 50, almost every half mile or so, we would see Trump yard signs - initally we just disregarded them, but as they continued mile after mile for over 150 miles, we noticed a distinct absence of Hilary signs, and we talked about this strange experience. Obviously, elections are determined by large urban populations, not small town citizens in the back country of a mid Western state, but still there were a lot of Trump yard signs, and only one, or maybe two, Hilary signs in over a hundred and fifty road miles, and numerous small communities.....

      Yet the polls all told us Hilary was winning. It wasn't until the election was over that the significance of the yard signs really registered in my mind, and my spouse's mind as well.

      I am having the same kind of cognitive dissonance again. I live in one of the strongest Democratic counties in Indiana, yet I find myself confronted with numerous vehicles plastered with not one, nor two, but at least half a dozen large Trump signs, some obscuring the rear window of their pick up trucks.. Many sport American flags as well.

      I ferevently hope this election is calmly accepted by both the winners and losers, but I am more than a bit concerned -

      Have you shopped for ammunition lately?

      I don't shop for ammo either( not my thing really ) , but I know from some aquaintances and family members who do, that the shelves are bare....... My son says it was worse in 2008, so maybe I'm over reacting...

      I really hope so.

    • Misinformation? I just scrolled thru the C Span poll and I’m not seeing it. Likely it’s as accurate as any poll. To think deeper into your characterization I would think ALL polls are misinformation. They certainly were in 16. Although suppression polls are probably a topic for another thread.

      325k is a pretty good sampling of folks. By all accounts Hispanic and Black voting for Trump will be unprecedented. There is certainly an enthusiasm gap.

    • As I mentioned, it was a Twitter poll, not one conducted via reasonable statistical methods. The 325,000 people & bots who flocked to it were largely generated by Trump-supporting websites, some of whom are operated by Russian Intelligence. As fast as Twitter, Google, Microsoft, the FBI and researchers identify them, 10 new ones pop up. I am in the business and we fight trolls and spammers all day long, and they have become impossible to contain. We may have the edge on military might, but Chinese and Russian hackers seem to have created incredibly successful misinformation campaigns.

      You're right, no poll is perfectly accurate, even the best like 538 have margins of error. 538 showed the probable winner of 2016 was Hillary, but via valid statistical polling there was still a 30% chance Trump could win as they reported. That's not misinformation, it's statistics and probability. When you have a 1 in 3 chance of winning, it shouldn't shock anyone when you sometimes do.

      But when you get a Twitter poll that's wildly different from polls with reliable statistical methods, it should raise red flags.

    • I agree with everything you said and you are far more in the know than I. But look at it this way. The enthusiasm gap is off the charts. So if one side is willing to run to a KOMO or C Span poll why doesn’t the other side? It can be explained in part by enthusiasm. Look at the rallies. Biden would love to draw those kinds of crowds. Problem with that is they have scared everyone and maybe rightly so but have we seen a Covid spike because of these large outdor rallies or large outdoor protests? No. So the left has so scared their base with shutdowns likely many of them are to scared to vote in person.

      When in the world have you seen the Amish with any voice in an election yet we see them rolling down the road in their wagons with MAGA signs.

      The religious left feels this is end times. They feel the second coming of Christ is here. They think Trump is biblical. The blacks will vote for a charismatic person, (by all accounts over 30%) anything over 9% and the election is lost. Gays are swinging hard right. Trump dancing to YMCA is not by accident. Hispanics are off the charts this year. The media has met their match and hence the sh*t show we saw the other night. Does anyone want the Supreme Court packed? Yet Biden will not answer the question.

      Trump is knocking on 1 million doors a week and Biden has ZERO ground game.

      This election is over. Everyone including the media knows it and why the next month will be hell on earth.

    • I was reluctant to post this a few days ago, but I think it deserves to follow @DanSolarMan's post.

      From the New York Times, a life long Democrat, gay female who plans to vote for Trump, and she tells the readers why.

      This gave me some pause the other day when I read it - one of the reasons I keep talking about cognitive dissonance.

      She apparently doesn't like her city streets taken over by homeless people, or her business threatened by peaceful protesters.... She doesn't even like like Trump.

      She just feels Trump will do a better job for her concerns, one of which is law and order on the streets, than the alternative offered her on the ballot. She may not be the only citizen in this country that feels this way.

    • I think secret or silent is the key word. A Trump supporter got their house burned to the ground last week and the left cheered. Maxine says get in their face if you see them. Do not let them have a peaceful meal out with their wife.
      The general rule is that people want to hire a manager to run the country a governor usually not a senator. Obama was the exeption not the rule. Harris is Obamas choice but a horrible one and not Black by ALL I have talked to. They feel duped.
      One last thing. As a lifetime salesman you never badmouth the competitor to win the job. Never. Politics is somewhat an exception but when it is your only message as Biden and Harris have chosen to make it, it turns people off. They already know Trumps faults they want to hear what they have to offer not, “focus on that man, that horrible bad orange man.”

    • There have been times in my life when what I believe is so far at odds with some fairly widespread beliefs, it simply didn’t compute for me. I can’t fathom the expanse of the universe and I can’t fathom how far apart our beliefs are now.

      The only leader I can think of who generated as much devotion and revulsion was Hitler and before you jump on me for the comparison, he did a lot for Germany to earn that devotion and most Germans didn’t know what he was doing to Jews.

      I sometimes wonder how we could be so far apart in believing basic facts in our country. Is it social media? Organized disinformation campaigns? It’s too much for me to understand. We watched the very same presidential debate and some of us came away completely revolted by Trump, as I have always been, and some came away adoring him.

      Two people I respect deeply told me last week that if I want Cake to succeed, it has to focus on travel and photography and drop political discussions. I guess that’s a topic for another thread.

    • There are 24 topics on the first page. 15 are politics. Because of this trend I have avoided Cake for the recent past. I jumped into the debate thread because it is darn frustrating to see a clearly aging candidate with obvious mental issues have any credibility at all. This idea in American politics that it is someones turn repulses me.

      Biden interupted Trump first. Then the gloves came off. Biden is a grandiose narcissistic bully and always has been. His lies and plagiarism have removed him from presidential races in the past. If you don’t vote for me you ain’t black? Really? There are countless examples of his creepy child touching and hair sniffing. He has zero respect for peoples space. As with Hillary he did not win a fair contest he was installed out of fear for the actual winner Bernie.

      I agree with your advisors. Many of us can tolerate a fair amount of politics but I would argue that most cannot. It is simply to ugly.

    • I feel your pain....... 🙀

      Actually cake has been pretty polite, so far, as it is obvious that there are folk here from both sides of the arena, yet no one has started with cat calls or foul language.

      Which is certainly far more polite than most web forums, where if you even hint at disagreeing, you must be mentally incompetent, racist, reprehensible, or much worse - maybe even felonious, or criminally insane.

      Anyone here voting for the Libertarian candidate?? Jo Jorgenson - no, that's not Jo's picture in the link, she is a senior psychology lecturer at Clemson University.

      I can only imagine the threads the cake staff are reading and deleting, and never see the light of day. And we thank you for it, too.