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    • As I said, I am suffering from cognitive dissonanace - between what I see in print and online, and what I see as I drive around. Now, I know that what I see statistically is truly insignificant; I judt can't help but notice I saw this same kind of thing in the fall of 2016.

      My wife and I went over to Ohio to see the Serpent Mounds which we had not seen before

      As we were heading back to Indiana in mid October of 2016, along US Hwy 50, almost every half mile or so, we would see Trump yard signs - initally we just disregarded them, but as they continued mile after mile for over 150 miles, we noticed a distinct absence of Hilary signs, and we talked about this strange experience. Obviously, elections are determined by large urban populations, not small town citizens in the back country of a mid Western state, but still there were a lot of Trump yard signs, and only one, or maybe two, Hilary signs in over a hundred and fifty road miles, and numerous small communities.....

      Yet the polls all told us Hilary was winning. It wasn't until the election was over that the significance of the yard signs really registered in my mind, and my spouse's mind as well.

      I am having the same kind of cognitive dissonance again. I live in one of the strongest Democratic counties in Indiana, yet I find myself confronted with numerous vehicles plastered with not one, nor two, but at least half a dozen large Trump signs, some obscuring the rear window of their pick up trucks.. Many sport American flags as well.

      I ferevently hope this election is calmly accepted by both the winners and losers, but I am more than a bit concerned -

      Have you shopped for ammunition lately?

      I don't shop for ammo either( not my thing really ) , but I know from some aquaintances and family members who do, that the shelves are bare....... My son says it was worse in 2008, so maybe I'm over reacting...

      I really hope so.

    • Misinformation? I just scrolled thru the C Span poll and I’m not seeing it. Likely it’s as accurate as any poll. To think deeper into your characterization I would think ALL polls are misinformation. They certainly were in 16. Although suppression polls are probably a topic for another thread.

      325k is a pretty good sampling of folks. By all accounts Hispanic and Black voting for Trump will be unprecedented. There is certainly an enthusiasm gap.

    • As I mentioned, it was a Twitter poll, not one conducted via reasonable statistical methods. The 325,000 people & bots who flocked to it were largely generated by Trump-supporting websites, some of whom are operated by Russian Intelligence. As fast as Twitter, Google, Microsoft, the FBI and researchers identify them, 10 new ones pop up. I am in the business and we fight trolls and spammers all day long, and they have become impossible to contain. We may have the edge on military might, but Chinese and Russian hackers seem to have created incredibly successful misinformation campaigns.

      You're right, no poll is perfectly accurate, even the best like 538 have margins of error. 538 showed the probable winner of 2016 was Hillary, but via valid statistical polling there was still a 30% chance Trump could win as they reported. That's not misinformation, it's statistics and probability. When you have a 1 in 3 chance of winning, it shouldn't shock anyone when you sometimes do.

      But when you get a Twitter poll that's wildly different from polls with reliable statistical methods, it should raise red flags.

    • I agree with everything you said and you are far more in the know than I. But look at it this way. The enthusiasm gap is off the charts. So if one side is willing to run to a KOMO or C Span poll why doesn’t the other side? It can be explained in part by enthusiasm. Look at the rallies. Biden would love to draw those kinds of crowds. Problem with that is they have scared everyone and maybe rightly so but have we seen a Covid spike because of these large outdor rallies or large outdoor protests? No. So the left has so scared their base with shutdowns likely many of them are to scared to vote in person.

      When in the world have you seen the Amish with any voice in an election yet we see them rolling down the road in their wagons with MAGA signs.

      The religious left feels this is end times. They feel the second coming of Christ is here. They think Trump is biblical. The blacks will vote for a charismatic person, (by all accounts over 30%) anything over 9% and the election is lost. Gays are swinging hard right. Trump dancing to YMCA is not by accident. Hispanics are off the charts this year. The media has met their match and hence the sh*t show we saw the other night. Does anyone want the Supreme Court packed? Yet Biden will not answer the question.

      Trump is knocking on 1 million doors a week and Biden has ZERO ground game.

      This election is over. Everyone including the media knows it and why the next month will be hell on earth.

    • I was reluctant to post this a few days ago, but I think it deserves to follow @DanSolarMan's post.

      From the New York Times, a life long Democrat, gay female who plans to vote for Trump, and she tells the readers why.

      This gave me some pause the other day when I read it - one of the reasons I keep talking about cognitive dissonance.

      She apparently doesn't like her city streets taken over by homeless people, or her business threatened by peaceful protesters.... She doesn't even like like Trump.

      She just feels Trump will do a better job for her concerns, one of which is law and order on the streets, than the alternative offered her on the ballot. She may not be the only citizen in this country that feels this way.

    • I think secret or silent is the key word. A Trump supporter got their house burned to the ground last week and the left cheered. Maxine says get in their face if you see them. Do not let them have a peaceful meal out with their wife.
      The general rule is that people want to hire a manager to run the country a governor usually not a senator. Obama was the exeption not the rule. Harris is Obamas choice but a horrible one and not Black by ALL I have talked to. They feel duped.
      One last thing. As a lifetime salesman you never badmouth the competitor to win the job. Never. Politics is somewhat an exception but when it is your only message as Biden and Harris have chosen to make it, it turns people off. They already know Trumps faults they want to hear what they have to offer not, “focus on that man, that horrible bad orange man.”

    • There have been times in my life when what I believe is so far at odds with some fairly widespread beliefs, it simply didn’t compute for me. I can’t fathom the expanse of the universe and I can’t fathom how far apart our beliefs are now.

      The only leader I can think of who generated as much devotion and revulsion was Hitler and before you jump on me for the comparison, he did a lot for Germany to earn that devotion and most Germans didn’t know what he was doing to Jews.

      I sometimes wonder how we could be so far apart in believing basic facts in our country. Is it social media? Organized disinformation campaigns? It’s too much for me to understand. We watched the very same presidential debate and some of us came away completely revolted by Trump, as I have always been, and some came away adoring him.

      Two people I respect deeply told me last week that if I want Cake to succeed, it has to focus on travel and photography and drop political discussions. I guess that’s a topic for another thread.

    • There are 24 topics on the first page. 15 are politics. Because of this trend I have avoided Cake for the recent past. I jumped into the debate thread because it is darn frustrating to see a clearly aging candidate with obvious mental issues have any credibility at all. This idea in American politics that it is someones turn repulses me.

      Biden interupted Trump first. Then the gloves came off. Biden is a grandiose narcissistic bully and always has been. His lies and plagiarism have removed him from presidential races in the past. If you don’t vote for me you ain’t black? Really? There are countless examples of his creepy child touching and hair sniffing. He has zero respect for peoples space. As with Hillary he did not win a fair contest he was installed out of fear for the actual winner Bernie.

      I agree with your advisors. Many of us can tolerate a fair amount of politics but I would argue that most cannot. It is simply to ugly.

    • I feel your pain....... 🙀

      Actually cake has been pretty polite, so far, as it is obvious that there are folk here from both sides of the arena, yet no one has started with cat calls or foul language.

      Which is certainly far more polite than most web forums, where if you even hint at disagreeing, you must be mentally incompetent, racist, reprehensible, or much worse - maybe even felonious, or criminally insane.

      Anyone here voting for the Libertarian candidate?? Jo Jorgenson - no, that's not Jo's picture in the link, she is a senior psychology lecturer at Clemson University.

      I can only imagine the threads the cake staff are reading and deleting, and never see the light of day. And we thank you for it, too.

    • I thought I was losing my mind when I scrolled through the feed and couldn't see a thread I was sure had been there 😀

      I know this thread isn't really the place for this discussion but I'm firmly of the belief that people are free to swipe past something without actually having to click on a topic to read it. If I see a political thread and don't like politics I can just scroll on by.

      I love cake precisely because the conversations I find myself drawn into are varied. If I don't want to look at something I don't have to and if I want to see more content in an area that I am passionate or have opinions about then I should take some responsibility for creating some.

    • Thank you, John. That's exactly how I feel but the question is how do you get critical mass in one thing and build out from there?

      Edit: I unhid it.

    • Thanks, Pathfinder. I don't mind hearing from both sides, in fact I like it because I want to understand both perspectives. You're right, I don't think we've seen many personal attacks. I've left a few up and removed some because the line is not bright and well defined.

      I don't want to become a vector for misinformation though, especially regarding safety — and that creates a dilemma because researchers are saying Trump is the #1 source of misinformation on Covid, so where is the line for pro-Trumpism? Masks? Social distancing? Wrecking the careers of public servants who protect our safety? Misinformation about the environment? I see how good he is at that, but as an earth scientist I see how it can get us all in real trouble.

    • I just can't adjust to Tweets like this no matter who or what he's talking about. I think even a significant portion of his supporters don't want him Tweeting, no?

    • Who is a better fighter? Corn Pop with the rusty straight razors, Joe Biden with the 6 foot Chain or Shoe Leather from last nights talk with Lester Holt. Do we even know how many times Joe has threatened or asked to take someone outside? Calling constituents fat. Telling them to shush. Poking them in the chest, mocking them. Telling them to vote for the other guy when they asked an honest question. Remember when he said he would take the president behind the schoolhouse? When he challenged his constituent to push ups. When he lied about his THREE degrees graduating top of his class on a full academic scholarship.

      Joe is a grandiose narcissist with all the signs, bullying, mocking, lieing, gaslighting, projecting.

      Have you seen the video where he is poking the union worker in the chest with his finger and the union worker says it’s not OK.

      Did anyone ask him last night about his racist statement, ”if you don’t vote for me you ain’t black”?

      Was President Trump wrong when he said all softballs?

      This is the daughter of the next debate moderator. Touch my daughter like this and we are going to have a discussion. Does anyone think Joe can run himself let alone a country?

    • This seems like it belongs here. If Biden wins, it looks like Jim Carrey will do a masterful job of entertaining us as Biden:

    • NBC News featured a pair of "undecided" voters during a network town hall earlier this week who had previously declared their support for Democratic nominee Joe Biden on the network's sister channel, MSNBC.

      Lawyer Peter Gonzalez and marketing executive Ismael Llano posed questions to Biden during a town hall on Monday, when he appeared before what the network described as an "audience of undecided Florida voters."

      Both Gonzalez and Llano, however, were featured in an MSNBC segment in August to explain why they support Biden. "If we get four more years of Trump, good luck, and good luck with the future attracting younger voters," Gonzalez said as an MSNBC chyron noted he was "voting for Biden." Llano was also identified as "voting for Biden" and offered praise for the former vice president.

      This is why President Trump was upset and tweeted his displeasure. Very dishonest on the media’s part.

    • First of all, I don't see anything wrong with that photo.

      Secondly, while Biden isn't perfect (no candidate is), he's worlds better than Trump. It's not even freaking close imo.

    • How about this one?

      Do you feel Biden has the cognative capability to run a country? He has already said he will only last one term.

      As a typical narcissist Biden has no respect for the space of others. Again, he does this with my daughter we will have a discussion about appropriate behaviour towards children.

    • I think the cognitive worries about Biden are exaggerated. Same with Trump.

      Both guys are much sharper than they get credit for. Trump has severe personality disorders and narcissism, but I don’t think he’s nearly impaired as others think. Biden, same deal. He’s way more alert and aware than people think.

      They aren’t as sharp as they were 25 years ago, but this notion that they’re both unable to tie their own shoes is greatly blown out of proportion.

    • I have studied narcissism hard for several years. I consider myself educated on the subject. It would be a facinating topic here. One thing I believe is that they are hard to put in a box as far as a definition as no two are alike. Biden is a classic narc with a verifyable history. All narcs have a lack of empathy. A couple words I use to define narcissism are Me (Something is happening to me) and Control (Here is where narcs get ugly). Once a narc is triggered they ususlly follow a set pattern of defense.

      See if you see either man in this article.