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    • I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a personal insult. I'm so involved with people who believe the flat earth theory that I'm very used to them wanting to be taken seriously, just as you expect to be taken seriously. They have an annual convention, they do scientific experiments, their numbers are booming, they have podcasts and videos, and they even have a cruise scheduled for this year to travel to the edge. Most of them agree with you wrt vaccinations and expect to be taken seriously about that too.

      The point I was trying to make is there are parallels in the way of thinking between both camps: the mainstream press won't cover their point of view, governments and companies are lying, the only way to get the truth is via alternative sources, they get attacked for their views.

    • Chris, it is hurtful and insulting for me to read when you compare a valid argument about safety of a pharmaceutical product with the Earth being flat or round.

      The thing is: you might not experience it this way, but both are very similar when looking at them from the outside. In both cases, you have:

      > overwhelming scientific evidence for one thing ("the earth is round"; "vaccines are safe").

      > people in closed groups arguing the opposite ("the earth is flat"; "vaccines kill people").

      > the same people dismissing expert opinions exactly because they are experts ("NASA is part of the conspiracy"; "big pharma just wants to make money"). Actually, as this conversation shows, no amount of reasoning at all really gets through.

      > the whole thing leading to splits in society and a general distrust towards science, in the democratic process and even between random people in general.

      > most of it playing out on "social media", where no one knows what bad actor might actually be responsible for the whole thingamajig:

      (part 3 of a series, you should really also watch parts 1 and 2:

      So, while I'm definitely not here to deliberately insult or "troll" you - if you absolutely must feel insulted and want to pretend to be some sort of victim here, I really don't care.

      When people run out of arguments, they often attack a character or intelligence of an opponent and that is some low tactics. This starts to feel like cyber bullying.

      This, however, is just an annoyingly tone-deaf thing to say in a conversation with currently 171 posts, many of which are valid counter-arguments to your claims. It shows that you are not actually interested in discussing things with an open mind.